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Missionaries in British Columbia collection
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David and Celestine Johnson interview

CALL NUMBER: T3532:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Memories of St. Joseph's Mission, Williams Lake, B.C. RECORDED: Alkali Lake (B.C.), 1979-06-07 SUMMARY:

TRACK 1: David and Celestine Johnson share reminiscences about their life at the Indian Residential School: going to school as young children (7 years old); learning English; older relatives helped younger ones to adjust; boys sawed wood; children slept in dormitories; Father Boening; clothing worn; boys and girls not allowed to mix; Father Thomas traveled all through area to advise Natives; pictures of ranch where David's father worked; wintertime difficult at the Mission school; older girls made clothes for all other children. TRACK 2: Celestine and David Johnson discuss: girls learned a lot about sewing, crocheting; boys learned how to fix shoes; playrooms for girls and boys; Shuswap language forbidden; illness at the Mission school; Williams Lake was basically non-existent at the time; David and Celestine were in school; burning of the school house, 1908 (?); Father Thomas' money stash; Mission had a lot of cattle; Father Thomas used to come to Alkali three times a year -- spoke some Shuswap.

CALL NUMBER: T3532:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Memories of St. Joseph's Mission, Williams Lake, B.C. RECORDED: Alkali Lake (B.C.), 1979-06-07 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: David and Celestine Johnson discuss: not being allowed to speak the Shuswap language at the Mission school; learning English; Sisters were mainly French, except for Sister Patricia who was Irish; some kids ran away (David did, but not Celestine); getting in trouble with teachers; Mission school was strict, but kids learned a lot; learning to cook and bake; food was different at school than home; sausages on Sundays; Chinook language. TRACK 2: The Johnsons discuss: David learned Chinook on his own; Father Thomas' buggy; their daughter went to Mission school, but it was different from the days when David and Celestine were there; Sister Patricia was nice; girls not allowed to see boys; story of Father Capani; Father Thomas anecdotes; visit from the Bishop; Native church. (End of interview)

Father Alex Morris (O.M.I.) interview

CALL NUMBER: T3869:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Father Alex Morris RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-07-30 SUMMARY: Father Alex Morris discusses: his early life -- born in Quebec in 1911 to a fisherman/stationary engineer; decision to go into the priesthood; always had this desire to go to sea, never realized this dream; wanted to be a missionary in Africa, but settled for a job working with the Natives in B.C.; came to Williams Lake, somewhat unhappily; going on a railroad trip through B.C. slightly changed his negative opinion of the province; in 1942, he began to go out on missions with Father Thomas from Williams Lake. Father Alex Morris on Father Thomas: first impressions; his warped use of the Durieu system, and Morris' rejection of it. Morris accompanied Father Thomas mainly to the Shuswap reserves. Problems he saw with Father Thomas' ways (Natives went right back to alcohol after Father Thomas left.) Discussion of native culture, the Durieu system. More on Father Alex Morris' experiences: on the missions until 1946; then he was asked to replace the principal of a Native school at Williams Lake; at this time, he was very dissatisfied with his job touring the reserves -- very close to quitting; complaints he heard from Native parents, before he took over at the school; school finances; understanding the ranch at the school; changes he made at the school -- ended the use of Native boys working at the ranch, ended half-days of school, implemented a more academic school program; parents just wanted children to learn enough English to read, write and be confirmed. CALL NUMBER: T3869:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Father Alex Morris RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-07-30 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Father Alex Morris: trappers; parents drinking, but still want children to know Catholic religion; he stopped practice of staff speaking French in front of Native children; he had good relations with the sisters; introduced music to the school; implementation of the public school program to the residential school; once he was in charge, the number of runaways dropped substantially; tried to bring in Native music; began to let girls and boys mix socially; building a swimming pool even though the government disapproved; started a program for priests in the teaching field to get their bachelors of education if they did not have it; sent Native children to Kamloops for high school -- high percentage passed all exams; discussion of the Chilcotin people; starting a girls' pipe band. TRACK 2: Father Alex Morris: more on the girls' pipe band and a misunderstanding over it; discussion of native culture -- criticisms he has heard of his methods; no regrets about his teaching style; more on native culture, particularly the Shuswap culture; Durieu system -- opposition to it, misunderstanding of native culture; native impressions of the Durieu system; relations between Natives and whites; Father Thomas' use of the Durieu system; Father Thomas' relationship with the Natives. More on the Durieu system and its use in B.C.

Father John Hennessy (O.M.I.) interview

CALL NUMBER: T3716:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Interview with Father John Hennessy RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-06-19 SUMMARY: In an interview with Margaret Whitehead, Father John Hennessy discusses: his background in Vancouver; why he went into the priesthood; going up to Williams Lake in 1935 to help Father Thomas; knew little about the Natives before he got up there; first impressions of Father Thomas; language problems; mixing with the Natives, being accepted by them; Natives both feared, and respected, Father Thomas; anecdote about the North Vancouver reserve; Father Thomas thought the big sins were drinking, gambling and eating meat on Friday; confessions; adultery; anecdote about Jimmy Tuleen (?); improvised court system used by Father Thomas and chief Charlie Boy; Father Thomas adopted the system to fit the needs of the Native people in this area; in 1936, Father Thomas and he divided the territory -- he got the north side of the Fraser; Father Thomas converted much of the Cariboo region; Father Thomas was always interested in morality of Natives; strong personality of Father Thomas- almost like a chief; examples of how Father Thomas would use psychology to convince Natives to convert (made them believe he had special powers); his feelings on sending the children to residential schools; Father Thomas' use of altar boys; difficult for him to go up to the Cariboo knowing nothing of Native traditions; Chilcotin refused to send their children to residential school for about 15 years; Father Thomas was not the biggest supporter of the Mission school; Father Thomas was always on the move; reason Father Thomas stayed in the area as priest for so long.;

CALL NUMBER: T3716:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Interview with Father John Hennessy RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-06-19 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Father Hennessy discusses: Father Thomas' policies and opinions -- appointed church-chiefs over elected chiefs to police morality, dislike of Shamans, viewed Natives as savages; story about Anaham Lake and the Natives there; traveling in the Chilcotin by horse and buggy; Father Thomas' views on the future of the Native people; Williams Lake became a regional centre and this hasten the development of 'civilization' to the Native communities; story of the 1948 earthquake; Father Thomas never rebuked him for not following in Thomas' footsteps; he always preached in Chinook, even though he talked to the Natives in English; differences between Father Thomas and himself; Native routines made it hard for them to go to church every Sunday, even if a priest had been on every reserve; goal of school was to convert the children because parents were nomadic; some Natives believed Father Thomas was very rich; Father Thomas had some medical supplies with him at times; few doctors in the area; Father Thomas' use of medicinal herbs. TRACK 2: More on Father Thomas' customs and routines. What angered Father Thomas. Anecdote about a chief wrestling with Father Thomas. Liked children. Discussion of the Oblates and the Catholic ladder system. Hennessy was in Cariboo from 1935 to 1948 and little changed during this time period. Alcohol problems. Hennessy lived on the Redstone Reserve and taught school for five years. Medicine men drumming in the night. Anecdote about getting some old coins of value. Father Thomas' relationship with the white ranchers- kept the peace between them and the Natives. Anecdote about Mr. Norman. Father Thomas' disapproval of white men living with Native women. More on Father Thomas' life and experiences. Natives provided traveling priests with supplies. Anecdote about an American.;

CALL NUMBER: T3716:0003 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Interview with Father John Hennessy RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-06-19 SUMMARY: [No content summary available for this tape.];

Group of Alkali Lake Indians : interview

CALL NUMBER: T3531:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Informal discussion on the subject of St. Joseph's Mission School, Williams Lake, B.C. RECORDED: Alkali Lake (B.C.), 1979-06-05 SUMMARY: Interviewees discuss their life at the Mission Indian Residential School. Many voices are heard, making it difficult to follow dialogue. TRACK 1: In this discussion, topics touched upon include: experiences at the Mission school; Sisters teaching at Mission; running away from the Mission; Father Aurore -- intelligent man; loss of the Native language; learning English; hard for parents to visit; Sisters Laura and Patricia were at Mission for many years; girls sewed clothing for themselves and for the boys' school; description of typical day. TRACK 2: Discussion of: Brother Collins; boys had to look after livestock; learning to cook; anecdote about making a fire at 3 am; ironing, washing clothes; mass every morning; relations between boys and girls were limited; teasing by the boys; story about one woman's wedding; visit of Bishop, confirmations; changes in Mission school layout.

CALL NUMBER: T3531:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Informal discussion on the subject of St. Joseph's Mission School, Williams Lake, B.C. RECORDED: Alkali Lake (B.C.), 1979-06-05 SUMMARY: Interviewees discuss their life at the Mission Indian Residential School. Many voices are heard making it difficult to follow dialogue. TRACK 1: Discussion of: train station near the Mission school; Indian graveyard rumours; years spent at the school; working for the Sisters in the summer; graduating, activities after graduation; games played; stories about other Natives in the community who went to the Mission school; boys were dressed as girls if they ran away; differences between lifestyle of Natives in the pre-war years, and now. (End of interview)

Irving Bell interview

CALL NUMBER: T3913:0001 RECORDED: Victoria (B.C.), 1980-11-18 / 1980-11-21 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Irving Bell discusses: his background -- birth and early history of parents; father's antique business; early schooling and living places; adventurous as a boy; taking the steamer to Skeena country. Describes scene from ship. Work as busy boy at Tern City Club (?). More about the journey on the boat. Speaks of Ole Hansen. Talks of industry in Skeena area. Three Hazeltons. TRACK 2: Irving Bell: 1936 flood at Hazelton; first impressions; first job at old H.B.C. store; Mrs. Newaski's boarding house. Describes H.B.C. store. Anderson bought building. Alan Benson and shoes anecdote. Discusses: Native people -- story of Simon Gunanoot; three main stores -- Dick Sargeant; problems of Indian agents; domination of Christian churches; settlers in area; parties; line cabins.

CALL NUMBER: T3913:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Irving Wells Bell RECORDED: Victoria (B.C.), 1980-11-18 / 1980-11-21 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Irving Bell discusses: story of linesman savings; how they spent money; how isolation affected them; reason for being fired from job. Mrs. Cox -- her history, Indians, weather prophet. Job at Kitwanga. Meeting with Natives -- boxing. Missionary at Kitwanga. His background and his wife's background. Missionary's priest taught children to sing. TRACK 2: Speaks of Coxes -- visiting him at Kitwanga, more on Coxes. Went into history -- followed what Natives wanted. Learnt Native language. Missionaries had done nothing in teaching. Kept curriculum. Few Natives spoke English; they were not interested in their children's education. No doctor. School inspector visit. Fixing up of totem poles. Mention of the United school. Kitsegukla. Bud left Kitwanga. Mention of school teachers. George Berns, Love family, school teacher at Love ranch. Mentions settlers in Kispiox. Mentions happenings in Kispiox and the Valley of Morn. Promises to England. George Berns gets a wife. How gold strikes originate with the Natives. Paints bridge. Water business. Changed boarding to room over store Myers and Smith. Old days in Kerrisdale: boarding house. Midwifery in kitchen. Worked on several jobs: range assistant. Learned about fur buying. Begins story of Manson Creek. Talks of dive boats. Use of canoes in floods. Use of river. Problem of ice.

CALL NUMBER: T3913:0003 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Irving Wells Bell RECORDED: Victoria (B.C.), 1980-11-18 / 1980-11-21 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Irving Bell discusses: river; road conditions- frost boils; hotels; Bud Dawson and Omineca Hotel. Loss of beer parlour to fire. Fire protection -- bucket brigade. Feud between Pete Cowigan and Bud Dawson. Mentions inhabitants. Talks about a white man who lived on a Native reserve. Throwing of furniture on to road. Three old-timers in front of hotel. Mentions settlers. Chinese cafes. Describes Chinese. No apparent racism. Hunting incident -- shoots loon. Scotty McCrae -- hotel owner. Other pioneers. Native graves spoiled. Natives did not accept Christianity. Most Natives could not speak English. TRACK 2: Irving Bell: Gitniquluk (?) village people; central heating; all influence by religion -- open to anything that provided enjoyment; Manson Creek journey; Luke Fauler (weather prophet); journey to Babine (Fort Babine); problem with toboggan; difficulties of journey; built fire on logs but dark anyways; old Native trades at Fort (Beas Lake Charlie?). Set out for Takla Lake. Native gives birth on trail. Crossing of Takla Lake. Working with Luke to establish a claim. McConkells' farm. Arrived at Billy Steale cabin. Billy Steale anecdote. Describes cabin. Blankets in bed. Went to claim.

CALL NUMBER: T3913:0004 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Irving Wells Bell RECORDED: Victoria (B.C.), 1980-11-18 / 1980-11-21 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Irving Bell discusses: doing some panning; working 'gentleman's agreement' claim; working for job with McConkells because of lack of food; getting job going for equipment; 'grizzly' encounters; working for McConkells for three weeks. Sent for provisions from Fort St. James. Skookum Davies. Got some gold. Returned via Vanderhoof because a road was now in area. Cabin on Bumblebee Creek "smallest in the world". Bear walks. Giles' growth story. Camped until road was done. Road the rails back to Hazelton. Met railroaders -- the 'system'. Mentions the Depression. Getting married. (End of interview)

Jimmy John interview

CALL NUMBER: T3536:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Reminiscences of an Hesquiat RECORDED: Nanaimo (B.C.), 1979-06-29 SUMMARY: In an interview with Margaret Whitehead, Jimmy John talks about his father's life, as well as his own. Father's background and life story: smallpox epidemic in Nootka when he was young; family was Catholic because Father Brabant lived in Nootka at the time; father's memories of being taught by Fathers Brabant and Stanley; Father Brabant did not want him to go to school because he wanted to teach him himself; attempt on Father Brabant's life by some Natives; Catholic Church built by Nootka Natives; his mother's family from Hesquiat were carvers, but his father was not a carver; how he learned to carve; carved for the Natives, not white people; his first wife -- traditional marriage, wife chosen by his parents; came to Nanaimo to carve silver; first wife died, met second wife (Jimmy's mother); story of how he got land in Nanaimo. TRACK 2: More on Jimmy's father's life: experiences on a schooner -- went to the Bering Sea as a cook, did not get paid much money; shipwrecks along the west coast; used a canoe when he was hunting; early memories of Victoria; always liked to fish; Rivers Inlet anecdote; moving to Nanaimo; back to Nootka to visit occasionally; related to chief line of Nootka's; potlatches; reason his older brothers did not become chief; Nootka's acceptance of Catholic religion; discussion of tape he did about his memories.

CALL NUMBER: T3536:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Reminiscences of an Hesquiat RECORDED: Nanaimo (B.C.), 1979-06-29 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Jimmy John discusses the life of his father with Margaret Whitehead: translating his father's speeches at Nootka ceremonies (from Native language into English); discussion of dancing and singing at potlatches; potlatches forbidden under Catholic religion in early days. [TRACK 2: blank; end of interview.]

Lilly Squinahan interview

SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Memories of St. Joseph's Mission, Williams Lake, B.C. RECORDED: Alkali Lake (B.C.), 1979-06-06 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: In an interview with Margaret Whitehead, Lilly Squinahan shares memories of her time at St. Joseph's Mission: typical day; her knowledge of English; sewing own clothes; learning to cook; everything the school needed, they produced (for the most part); Brother Collins; spent nine years in school, but only went to grade 6 academically (ages 9 to 18). Had to leave school to make room for new students. She enjoyed school and believes other students did too. Religion at St. Joseph's. Some children ran away from the school -- workmen would have to go looking for them. Chilcotin children in the school. All her siblings went to St. Joseph's too. Her youngest brother used to run away. Trapping no longer practiced by many Natives. Parents did not come to visit often. Holidays were six weeks. TRACK 2: Lily Squinahan: On holidays, Father Thomas would sometimes come to the reserve -- he was very strict (no alcohol, no dancing). Discussion of other priests. Chief Samson. Chief and Father Thomas had a court-like system set up where people would pay fines and confess to wrongdoings. Little alcohol on the reserve in old days. Chief is no longer a hereditary position. Concluding remarks.

Margaret Booth interview

CALL NUMBER: T3866:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Margaret Booth RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-12-06 SUMMARY: About Victor Harold Sansum.

TRACK 1: Margaret Booth discusses her father's background: born in Glasgow, went to America at age 14 to stay with some relatives, then up to Toronto; decided to go west to follow a Sunday school teacher he admired; went to theological college in New Westminster; fought in WW I, married an English girl; returned to Canada and was ordained as a minister with the Methodist church; parish in Hazelton, then Kispiox, where he began his work with Natives; enjoyed the challenge of working with Natives; lived a primitive lifestyle in northern B.C., difficult for her mother; relationship her father had; with the Natives at Kispiox -- his house was focal point of community activities; prevalence of T.B. in the Native community; father also went to a Norwegian community, Four Mile, while he was in Kispiox; anecdote about her father tutoring a boy who could not get to a high school; Indian graveyard at Kispiox; potlatches made her father's job more difficult; story about her father taking over one day for an Anglican service.

TRACK 2: Margaret Booth discusses her life as the daughter of a Methodist missionary: she had little contact with the Natives as a child; left Kispiox in 1926 because there were no white schools there; other white families in the north; in Vancouver for three years, father at a United Church; father got his M.A. at this time; back to the north, this time to Port Simpson; lived on a reserve; other whites in area were Anglican, odd situation; Captain Scott's library on the mission boat, the 'Thomas Crosby'; her school experiences in Port Simpson; church burnt down in 1931.;

CALL NUMBER: T3866:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionaries in B.C. : Margaret Booth RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-12-06 SUMMARY:

TRACK 1: Margaret Booth talks about her father's life as a missionary: differences between the Natives at Kispiox and Port Simpson; father's objection to potlatches; father learned to speak the language in Port Simpson and this helped his relations with the Natives. (End of interview);

Mary Englund interview

CALL NUMBER: T3868:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionary in B.C. : Mary Englund RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-07-31 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Mrs. Englund's recollections of her education at the Mission Indian Residential School: born in Lillooet, raised at Bralorne and D'Arcy Native reserves; taken to the Mission Indian Residential School at age 8, stayed until she was 16; hard family life -- French-Canadian father killed, Native mother drank; she enjoyed her trip down to Mission because she was not sad to leave her mother; arrival at school -- bathed by an older girl, putting on an uncomfortable uniform; being homesick; older girls watched the younger ones; difficult to get used to rules of the school; description of a typical day; chores; Catechism; learning to sew. TRACK 2: Mary Englund further discusses her memories of the residential school in Mission: anecdote about darning a sock; learning English -- very difficult for some children; nuns told girls they were lucky to be in a convent because the outside world was wicked; rebellious girls -- running away, punishments; children were told not to tell parents anything about school -- parents could not visit often; the grade system ('notes'); Sister Veronica; sisters made them feel ashamed to be Native; asserting herself against the ways of the school; becoming a rebel. CALL NUMBER: T3868:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Missionary in B.C. : Mary Englund RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-07-31 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Mary Englund discusses her time at the Mission Residential School: some nuns showed affection; wearing veils in church; contact between girls and boys was forbidden; anecdote about dressing a girl up like a boy to annoy a sister; story about some boys climbing into the girls' dormitory at night; describes the journey home for the holidays; at home, she sometimes missed companionship of the school; went as high as she could academically, Native girls were not allowed to go to high school; working as a maid for an old Scottish lady in Ladner; wanted to be a nun, but was not allowed because her parents were not married. (End of interview)

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