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Documentary. The building of a BC Rail 129 kilometre (80 mile) branch line to the coal mines of Tumbler Ridge for the Northeast Coal Project. Shows surveying; tunnel and bridge construction; laying of rails; manufacture of porcelain insulators; installation of electrical lines to power trains; design and construction of electric locomotives; loaded trains en route; Ridley Island Coal Terminal at Prince Rupert.

RECORDED: Prince George (B.C.), 1986 SUMMARY: Tony Kos: In 1949, Tony joined the railway's construction survey crew on the extension north of Quesnel. He left the railway, then returned soon after for the push north to the Peace River district. T;ony now owns and operates a contracting business in Prince George.;

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1986 SUMMARY: Marv Gammon: As Marv says, "Everyone started in Lillooet at one time or another." He started there in 1963. As of 1986, he was a trainman on the Fort Nelson run, based in Fort St. John.;

RECORDED: Dawson Creek (B.C.), 1986 SUMMARY: Vic Michetti hitchhiked into Dawson Creek in 1963 and signed on with the railway. Vic did not plan to stay long, but as of 1986, he could still be found working in the Dawson Creek office.;

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1986 SUMMARY: Doug Christie retired in January 1986 after 27 years as terminal supervisor at Fort St. John. He spent 30 years with the railway.;

RECORDED: Edson (Alta.), 1984-10 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Early trapping and moose hunting in the Peace River region. Local guides names. Worked for Stan Clark and Jack Hargreaves in the Jasper area, circa 1938. Art and Ken Allen were head guides. Other Jasper outfits in the 1940s noted. Tips given on summer and fall trips. Pat Smith, Ed and Frank Moberly. Cooks. Hargreaves' area was Sulphur River; trailed in from Devona. Red Ilee. Hunter's death recounted; taking out the body, etc. Worked for Red Creighton's outfit after WWII. Outfitting summer climbing trips, usually 14 days. TRACK 2: Larry McGuire. Transferred into pack troop at Prince George during WWII; specialized horsemen, packed mountain fighters for manoeuvers in mountain parks. Gene was a farrier. A 'unique' discharge. Wife cooked for various outfitters. Various wages for summer and fall trips. Guiding equipment. Fish story regarding Jack Hargreaves. Frank Burstrom and disappearing elk horns story.

The film consists of a documentary about the Northeast coal development. It depicts the City of Tokyo and Vancouver officials signing the Northeast Coal Development Agreement and Premier W.R. Bennett with Japanese official. It also shows various modes of transportation, mine installations from Prince George to Fort St. John, cargo shipping routes. and town sites for employees.

Documentary. The story of the Northeast Coal and Transportation Development. City of Tokyo and Vancouver officials sign Northeast Coal Development Agreement. Premier W.R. Bennett with Japanese officials. Various modes of transportation. Mine installations from Prince George to Fort St. John. Cargo shipping routes. Townsites for employees.

CALL NUMBER: T4105:0043.1 RECORDED: Millarville (Alta.), 1984-10 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Grew up with a passion for reading, the mountains and horses. Bert Rigall, international reputation, taught Andy guiding, childhood accident, started in 1907, operated out of Waterton Park, 1910. Wilderness summer trips, fifty horses, covered from Flathead Valley to Kananaskis. Major five month trip, Fort Steele to Pine Pass in 1911. Guides license obtained in 1936. Guiding territory in BC was lower Flathead Valley and east tributaries, 1946 to 1960. Used local BC guides. Selective hunting for bighorn sheep. Providing a service. High international outfitters rating. Frank Dvorak. Exclusive outfitting rights in Waterton Park, 110 horses. Recollections and perceptions of grizzly. TRACK 2: Guided famous hunting writers. Wilderness photography. Exposure/experience with big game, horses. Snowstorm problems. Close calls climbing. His film "Grizzly Country": lecture tour for 11 years, making it. Career thoughts. Description of Frenchie Riviere; origins, trailed horses to Fort St. John.

CALL NUMBER: T4105:0043.2 RECORDED: Millarville (Alta.), 1984-10 SUMMARY: Frenchie Riviere (continued). Jim Riviere, George Gladstone's stream crossing story. Crowsnest outfits; Frank Dvorak, Martin and Mike Baher, Vensel Dvorak. Leo Rutledge. Recollections of recent conservation battle with oil companies.

CALL NUMBER: T4077:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Interview with Bernard Atkins RECORDED: Victoria (B.C.), 1983-06-28 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Mr. Atkins discusses: childhood in England; moving to Victoria; first interest in photography and first photographic assignment; going up to Alaska to make film on Alaska Highway, 1949; boss Clarence Ferris; work in hard-to-get-to parts of the province; first two films, "Look to the North" and "Land of Tomorrow"; work for civil service, Tourism and Travel Bureau for B.C. government. TRACK 2: More on development of the Peace River and Alaska Highway region. Describes what life was like in the north of B.C. in the '40s and '50s. Lack of funds in Travel and Tourism Bureau. Dealing with Phil Gaglardi at Department of Highways: agreed to make some films for that department. Films on industrial industries. Resignation of Clarence Ferris. Discussion of "Men, Mountains and the Challenge;". Film about Island highway and film about totem poles. CALL NUMBER: T4077:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Interview with Bernard Atkins RECORDED: Victoria (B.C.), 1983-06-28 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Further discussion on "The Silent Ones". Going up to the Queen Charlottes with Wilson Duff and others from UBC. Bringing back the totem poles to UBC and the Royal B.C. Museum. Good relationship with Bill Reid and Kelly Duncan. Got along well with Mungo Martin, the Native carver. Feud between Chief Thunderbird and Mungo Martin. Atkins' last film was "Valley of the Swans," about Kootenay Flats being drained. Discusses "Kootenay Lake Holiday" and "Highway Sixteen". Dick Colby and Clarence Ferris anecdote. Describes working conditions at the Ministry of Trade and Industry and his relationship with Ferris. [TRACK 2: blank.]

CALL NUMBER: T4105:0017.1 RECORDED: Fort St. John (B.C.), 1983-11 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: A green kid's first trip wrangling in 1926. A cold forty day trip. Guided for 38 consecutive years. Included Jasper, Tete Jaune Cache, and Pink Mountain. Best game and horse country was ;north of Jasper. Territorial comparison. Curly Phillips was pioneering outfitter. Indians. Hunting territories overlapped at Kakwa (Porcupine) Lake. Various geographic names in Kakwa area / Sheep Pass meadows. Clark's crossing on Smoky River. Die-off of caribou. TRACK 2: Various trips in Jasper Park. Some Jasper outfitters. Brother, Rufe, started about 1918, later partner with Bert Wilkins. Description of Curly Phillips and operation. Ed 'Dad' Neighbor. Park guide badge 1921. Otto Brothers in Jasper. Magazine article. Family move with horses from Tete Jaune Cache to Pink Mountain in 1954. Outfitted from Pink Mountain for ten years. Description of his territory, rivers, game, trails. 1906 police trail noted. Eunice's (wife) involvement in operations. CALL NUMBER: T4105:0017.2 RECORDED: Fort St. John (B.C.), 1983-11 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Stan Russell's death and burial on Big Shale Hill, 1951. Plaque mounted. George Hargreaves' death and grave. Shovel superstition. Details of bear attack on Harry Phillips at Berland River; on Jack Powell at Prophet River. Blood poisoning incident on dude trip to Kakwa Lake, 1936 or 1937. A lucky wilderness operation on his leg. Changes in outfitting over the years, tents, cooking, stoves and heating, lamps, pack boxes. Game pressure and conservation today. [TRACK 2: blank.]

RECORDED: Madeira Park (B.C.), 1982-03-20 SUMMARY: Mr. Likes' parents came to the Peace River in 1913 by covered wagon. Melvin trapped, farmed and worked for public works; he retired to the Sunshine Coast.;

CALL NUMBER: T3992:0001 RECORDED: Chetwynd (B.C.), 1982-03 SUMMARY: An oral history interview with Father Cesaire Mariman, O.M.I., who discusses the work of Oblate missionaries, the mission at Eleske (Alberta), the Beaver Indians, and Father Emile Jungbluth, O.M.I. TRACK 1: First encounter with Beaver Indians at Prophet River. Watchmaking and watch repair. Father Jungbluth obtains a motorcycle to travel his missions in the Fort St. John area; Father Mariman's own system of a bicycle pulled by a husky dog. TRACK 2: Father Mariman discusses the history of the mission at Eleske, Alberta. Arrival of church bell. Building of St. Bernadette Church. First arrival of Fathers Jungbluth and Mariman at Eleske in 1935; condition of church; showing of films. The shrine and grotto; pilgrimages. Witching for water.;

CALL NUMBER: T3992:0002 RECORDED: Chetwynd (B.C.), 1982-02 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Father Mariman talks about learning the grammar of the Beaver Indian language. [TRACK 2: blank.];

The item consists of a video copy of footage from 1982. Shows aerial footage of various forest fires between Squamish and Whistler, in the Cariboo Region, the Peace River Region, Bulkley Valley, Vancouver Island, and along the BC/Alberta border. Commentary discusses characteristics of the individual fires, their causes, specific problems presented, etc.

CALL NUMBER: T3991:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): [Moberly Lake missionary] RECORDED: Chetwynd (B.C.), 1982-03 SUMMARY: Father Emile Jungbluth, O.M.I., recalls his experiences as a Roman Catholic missionary among the Indians of the Peace River Region, 1936-1982. TRACK 1: Radio systems; connecting Moberly Lake with Halfway River and Fort St. John. "Barbwire radio" between St. Theresa's Church and Hudson's Bay Company, Moberly Lake. Speakers hanging in trees; tape recording. TRACK 2: Attempts at agriculture on Moberly Lake Reserve. Building of St. Theresa's Church. Father Jungbluth was supported by benefactors from Alsace while living at Moberly Lake. Supported himself by selling projector and films, repairing; watches, radios, etc., and sawing wood.;

CALL NUMBER: T3991:0002 RECORDED: Chetwynd (B.C.), 1982-04 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Description of missionary territory under Grouard - McLennan Diocese (Horse Lake, Wabiti, Pipestone Creek, Kelly Lake, Fort St. John). Stopover at Brainard's between Grande Prairie and Dawson Creek. Following the rodeo circuit to see all the Indians of the area. TRACK 2: Marriage registrations of Indians; baptisms, etc. Trip to the Halfway River Indian Reserve to marry Indians.;

RECORDED: Hudson's Hope (B.C.), 1981-03 SUMMARY: TRACK 1 (on each of three tapes): Early history of family origins; impressions on first arrival in Hudson's Hope; gold mining methods; experiences of the Reschke family. [TRACK 2 (on each of three tapes): blank.]

RECORDED: Williams Lake (B.C.), 1981-09 SUMMARY: Mr. Richards was born in Washington state and moved to the Peace River in 1921. He later moved to Vancouver with his father, and completed his schooling there. Herbert logged on Vancouver Island for a time. and later moved to the Cariboo, where he made his home on a preemption in Forest Grove.

The item consists of a promotional film. It explores the development of northeastern BC natural and metallurgical resources. Topics discussed include: future coal agreement with Japan; Prince George; Dawson Creek; new industrial development on the Peace River and a future coal port in Prince Rupert.

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-08 SUMMARY: In a tape-recorded reminiscence, Percy Gray discusses the origins and history of the Central B.C. Development Project, directly concerned with the Peace River, Williston Lake and W.A.C. Bennett Dam areas.

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1979-07-25 SUMMARY: Mr. Bruce tells of his education in Victoria. The difficulties of getting a school in those days; getting school at Upper Pine (1938-39); took train there, with 40 teachers going north. Describes country, ranchers, boarding place, social life, poverty, types of food. The school's part in the community. Organization of school district in the Peace River block. One-room schools had some advantages, but mainly considers that education is better in consolidated schools. He became a principal and superintendent of schools in the Kamloops district.

The item is a composite print of a documentary film from the 1970s. It is a description of the proposed Site C project on the Peace River, seven kilometers southwest of Fort St. John. The film shows how the waters of the Peace can be harnessed a third time to meet the energy needs of the province. It also discusses the impact of the proposed development and mitigation opportunities.

The item is a release print of a documentary film, from the 1970s. It contains a description of the proposed Site C project on the Peace River, seven kilometers southwest of Fort St. John. The film shows how the waters of the Peace can be harnessed a third time to meet the energy needs of the province. It also discusses the impact of the proposed development and mitigation opportunities.

The item is a composite print of a promotional film from ca. 1978. It contains an overview of BC Hydro projects, activities and plans to meet the province's energy needs -- past, present and future. Sequences include: historical footage from 1950s of power plants in the Lower Mainland and the Bridge River development; the Peace River project under construction and now; flood control benefits of the Bennett dam; the provincial power grid; power line right-of-way made available for other uses; new submarine cable to Vancouver Island (late 1960s); Duncan and Keenleyside [Arrow] dams and side benefits [Kokanee spawning channel, Duck Lake waterfowl sanctuary, new beaches on Arrow Lake]; construction at Mica dam site; helicopter transporting transmission tower; crew stringing power lines on Mission Ridge; helicopter patrolling line; crew working on fallen line and tower; possible new energy sources for the future; B.C. Hydro building in Vancouver. "Hydro in Action" is probably a short version of this film.

News item. Present to sign BC's North East Coal Fields Agreement, to provide BC develoment with federal government assistance are: Otto Land, Federal Minister of Energy and Mines; BC Premier Bill Bennett; Jim Chabot, BC's Minister of Mines; and Don Phillips, MLA for Dawson Creek and Peace River. Phillips says this development will permit BC to provide a greater amount of the coal consumed by metallurgical industries world-wide.

CALL NUMBER: T1675:0021 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Social Credit and economic development in British Columbia, 1952-1972 PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-06-16 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses the administration of public finances in British Columbia during the years he served as Premier. Economic conditions in B.C. when Social Credit came to power, 1952. Anecdote about meeting an old trapper in the Peace River country. Bennett's plan for developing British Columbia. John de Wolf and reaction to the takeover of B.C. Electric. Bennett's belief in making the capitalist system work for the people. Politics as the only real science. TRACK 2: Comments on the nature of the British Columbia economy. The roles of resource industries and tourism in the economy. The lack of secondary industry in B.C. British Columbia's place in the world economy. Story about a trip to the Iron Curtain. Attitude toward the United States and the issue of continentalism in North America. Cooperation with the federal government on various projects. The Columbia River Treaty. Economic development in B.C. as a consequence of post-war prosperity. Populism. Problems associated with maintaining Social Credit's hegemony in B.C. under W.A.C. Bennett's leadership. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0022 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Financial policies of Social Credit in British Columbia, 1952-1960 PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1960 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-06-17 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses Einar Gunderson's loss of a legislative seat, 1953, and his subsequent role in the government. Assuming the Finance portfolio. Comments on close friends and confidants during his early years as Premier. Comments on literature written on the subject of his years in power: Ron Worley's "The Wonderful World of W.A.C. Bennett", Paddy Sherman's "Bennett", Martin Robin's "Pillars of Profit", Pat McGeer's "Politics in Paradise". Political philosophy. Reduction of the public debt as the keystone of Social Credit policy during the early years of power. TRACK 2: Explanation of the process of eliminating the public debt of British Columbia. Debt reduction and its relationship to Socred development policies. Reasons for concentrating on the policy of debt reduction. Direct liabilities vs. contingent liabilities. The bond-burning ceremony at Kelowna, August 1, 1959. The development of parity bonds. The genesis of the B.C. homeowner's grant. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0023 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Government finance and transportation policies of the Socreds PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-06-18 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses the budgetary processes of his Social Credit government. Treasury Board and "Little Treasury Board". The budget as an instrument of government policy. Balanced budget vs. deficit financing. Elimination of nuisance taxes. Political popularity vs. high principles as factors in the formulation of government policy. Budgetary growth and economic development. The advocacy of unpopular policies and the defeat of the government in 1972. TRACK 2: Plans for the expansion of the PGE Railway. The role of the railway in Bennett's plan for the development of British Columbia's north. Bennett's "Northern Vision". Oil and gas discoveries in B.C.'s Peace River District. Frank McMahon, Westcoast Transmission Company, and Bennett's efforts to build a pipeline in British Columbia. Meeting with presidents of oil companies in Victoria. Establishment of the Toll Bridges and Highway Authority, 1953. The construction and financing of highways in B.C. The background to the establishment of the B.C. Ferries Corporation. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0024 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Provincial and Federal Social Credit policies in Canada, 1952-1972 PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-08-16 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses relations among the B.C. and Alberta Social Credit parties and the federal Social Credit party. Social Credit's ambitions in the federal field in Canada. The contest for the leadership of the federal Socreds between Robert Thompson and Real Caouette, 1961. Motivations for Manning's support of Thompson and Bennett's support for Caouette. British Columbia Socreds and their support for the federal wing of the party. The Albertan influence on the federal Socreds. Anecdote about the possibility of Ross Thatcher joining Social Credit. TRACK 2: The role of Orvis Kennedy within the Alberta Social Credit movement. Evaluation of the leadership of Solon Low. Bennett's lack of interest in becoming directly involved in federal politics after he became Premier. Anecdote about a federal Socred meeting at "The Market" in Montreal. Evaluation of Robert Thompson's leadership of the federal Social Credit party. Reasons for Thompson's failure. The effect of the Diefenbaker 'sweep' on the federal Socreds' fortunes. Reasons why Bennett supported Caouette. Anecdote about addressing a large audience in Caouette's home town of Rouyn, Quebec. Reasons for the lack of success of the Social Credit party in federal politics in Canada. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0025 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Relations with federal governments in Ottawa, 1952-1968 PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1964 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-08-16 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses further aspects of his relationship with the federal Social Credit party in Canada. The role of the Social Credit League. The Social Credit party's influence on government policy. Federal Liberal and Conservative governments were jealous of Social Credit's achievements in British Columbia. Reasons why B.C. did not receive substantial financial aid from Ottawa during Bennett's years as Premier. Criticism of federal government's "tight money" policies. TRACK 2: Bennett's government cooperated with Ottawa on major projects. No difference in dealing with a Liberal or Conservative federal administration. Lester Pearson and the Columbia River Treaty. The B.C. government's proposal for a Bank of British Columbia. The Senate Bank Committee Hearings. Anecdote about a meeting with Paul Martin. Reasons why the original proposal for a Bank of B.C. were not successful. The present Bank of British Columbia's indebtedness to Bennett's government. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0026 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Background to the Sommers Affair PERIOD COVERED: 1930-1960 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-08-17 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett explains how he acquired his home in Kelowna. The purchase of his hardware store from David Leckie, 1930. Reasons why he did not seek nomination as campaign leader of the Social Credit party for the 1952 election. The background to the Sommers Affair. Bennett hired a private detective to investigate Sommers when he first heard rumours of irregularities. Reasons why Sommers had been chosen as a cabinet minister. Sommers one of the Socreds' best debaters. TRACK 2: Bennett comments on Liberal "friends" who leaked information to him. He reads from a public opinion poll commissioned by the Liberals in 1968 which rates the chances of success of several possible Liberal leaders in B.C., including John Turner. Robert Sommers' personal weaknesses. Gordon Gibson Sr.'s charges against Sommers in the legislature and the later by-election in Lillooet. Anecdote about a lively by-election campaign meeting. Bennett does not regret appointing Sommers to the cabinet. Further comments on Gordon Gibson Sr. Comments on persuading Chief Justice Sloan to become forestry advisor to the Bennett government. Evaluation of Attorney-General Bonner's handling of the Sommers case. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0027 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): The Sommers Affair PERIOD COVERED: 1956-1960 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-08-17 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses further aspects of the Sommers Affair. Asking for Sommers' resignation from the cabinet and the appointment of new ministers. All-night sittings of the legislature. The calling of elections. The election of 1956. The effect of the Sommers Affair on the outcome of the election. Bennett's battle with the newspapers. Views on the press. Reasons for the Social Credit victory in the 1956 election. Further comments on Sommers, the court case and the Attorney-General's handling of it. TRACK 2: Reaction to the Sommers case. The impact of the Sommers Affair on the Social Credit government. Comments on possible dissension within Socred ranks. The handling of forest management licences by the Bennett government. Comments on the outcome of the Sommers case. Further comments on Robert Bonner's handling of the Sommers Affair. Loyalty as a possible weakness of W.A.C. Bennett. History will vindicate Sommers. CALL NUMBER: T1675:0028 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Federal-Provincial relations, 1952-1972 PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-10 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses aspects of federal-provincial relations during the years he served as Premier, 1952-1972. Relations between the provinces and the federal government improved during the period. Loyalty to a united Canada. Enjoyed dealing with C.D. Howe in Ottawa. Comparison of the four Prime Ministers Bennett served in conjunction with: St. Laurent, Diefenbaker, Pearson and Trudeau. TRACK 2: Anecdote about an experience at an official dinner in Paris regarding France's relationship with Canada and Quebec. Discussion of further aspects of federal-provincial relations while serving as Premier of B.C. Response to references in the memoirs of former Prime Ministers Diefenbaker and Pearson. W.A.C. Bennett's style of politics. Comments about Pierre Trudeau's stewardship of the federal government. The incident of Trudeau referring to Bennett as "a bigot". CALL NUMBER: T1675:0029 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): The failure of the Victoria Charter, 1971 PERIOD COVERED: 1965-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-10 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: W.A.C. Bennett discusses his attitude towards bilingualism in Canada. Review of the Canadian constitution. The background to the meeting in Victoria in June, 1971, at which the Victoria Charter was issued. Reasons for the failure to accept the charter. Quebec's lack of trust in the rest of Canada. Explanation of the formula for amending the Canadian constitution under the Victoria Charter. Individual rights versus national or regional interests as an issue in federal-provincial relations. Criticisms of a centralized federal system. [TRACK 2: blank.]

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977 SUMMARY: An oral history interview with Jesse Starnes about Fort St. John and area. He talks about his childhood in Oklahoma, migrating to Canada in 1905, the native people, his life as a trapper, other settlers, the building of the Alaska highway, conditions in the 1930s, collapse of the Peace River bridge, hydro development, other sources of power, space travel, and the attitudes of east to west and resources.

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977 SUMMARY: An oral history interview with Harold Fines, a Saskatchewan school teacher who homesteaded in the Peace in 1934. He talks about the journey to the Peace by car and rail, the mail service, roads, electric power, radio, missionaries, schools, work on co-op, school and hospital boards, comments on modern technology and change.;

RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977 SUMMARY: An oral history interview with Mrs. Margaret Crook. She talks about the journey to the Peace from the prairies in 1929, Fort St. John in 1929, homesteading in the Montney area, entertainments, crops, hardships, logging, food and clothing, school, visiting, holidays, berrying, sucker sundays, hockey games and "flipping a coin for a baby".