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British Columbia. Dept. of Finance
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Lillooet Government Agent correspondence and other material

  • GR-0224
  • Series
  • 1859-1950

The series consists of records created by the Lillooet Government Agent between 1859 and 1950. It includes correspondence inward and outward, mining, water and financial records. It also includes counterfoil books of Mineral Act (Form B) record of a mineral claim, placer mining leases-indentures correspondence and Cariboo Wagon Road toll records. Some records also relate to the nearby Clinton Government Agency.

British Columbia. Government Agent (Lillooet)

Cariboo Government Agent correspondence and other material

  • GR-0216
  • Series
  • 1860-1938

The series consists of records created by the Government Agent and the Gold Commissioner of the Cariboo District, between 1860 and 1938. It includes correspondence inward and outward; court, mining, land, financial and administrative records.

British Columbia. Gold Commissioner (Cariboo)

Miscellaneous provincial treasury financial records

  • GR-4170
  • Series
  • 1869-1948

This series consists of 41 volumes of financial records likely created by the Provincial Treasury and Department of Finance from 1869-1948. The majority of records are waste books, journals, ledgers and cash books. However they may not be labelled clearly as such. Other types of records include day books, memoranda, authorities, promissory notes, blotters, form K, form J and other account books. The titles of each volume in the file list are transcribed directly from the cover or front page of the volume. Title information in [square brackets] is estimated or inferred by the archivist. The records document the financial transactions and balances of the provincial government in all aspects of its operations and functions.

Waste books are rough account book in which transactions are recorded as they occur. Waste book entries are often transferred to day books prior to summary in journals and ledgers. These transactions are entered chronologically by date and are arranged under various accounts. The accounts may be the type of expense, or the name of the office in which the transaction relates to. Information may be entered under the following headings: date, related journal page, amount and total. Only some books include a description of individual services or items of a transaction.

Journals are a type of financial record used in double entry book keeping to separate transactions into debits or credits. They are an intermediary record used to reorganize the chronological entries in rough day books or waste books into specific accounts, before they are ultimately copied into a ledger book. Information may be entered under the following headings: amount, associated ledger folio number, associated waste book page, date, a description of the transaction, and if the transaction was a debit or credit. The end of each year includes a sheet summarizing the balances for various accounts.

Ledger books are financial records in which each transaction is entered under a particular account or subject as a debit or a credit. The information may have been copied from a related daybook or journal before being sorted and copied into the ledger. Accounts can include anything that is a source of government income or expenditure. Account names may be indexed. Information may be entered under the following headings: date, related journal page, description of the transaction, and the amount. Debit transactions are recorded on the left side of a folio and credits on the right side.

Cash books list receipts and payments in date order and are used to determine total assets at any given time. Information may be entered under the following headings: date of receipt or payment, number of voucher; name of the person or department making or receiving the payment; reason for payment or receipt; amount received or paid; the heading under which the entry was recorded in the related waste book; and the waste book page number. Cash books may be referred to as collectorate books or records of receipts and payments.

British Columbia. Dept. of Finance and Agriculture

British Columbia law stamps

Arranged according to accession and denomination. File 1 is the older accession. File 2 onwards is from the 1993 accession.

British Columbia. Ministry of Finance and Corporate Relations

Correspondence and other material

  • GR-0629
  • Series
  • 1883-1896

This series consists of correspondence, a draft of the British Pacific Railway Act, minutes, notes on proceedings and reports of the Legislative Committee on Private Members' Bills.

British Columbia. Dept. of the Provincial Secretary

Records of Premier John H. Turner

  • GR-1197
  • Series
  • 1893-1897

This series contains official correspondence, reports, and related papers of Premier John H. Turner. Records include correspondence pertaining to provincial railway charters (1893-1897), agriculture, and mining; also includes B.C. Agent-General's Report (1895), applications for employment, and miscellaneous letters.

Papers in this series are those of the Honourable John Herbert Turner (1833-1923), premier of British Columbia from 4 March 1895 to 8 August 1898. Since Turner's administration was characterized by rapid industrial development (notably in railways, mining, and agriculture), and by no little political controversy, his official papers are especially valuable.

Most of the reports and correspondence in GR-1197 originated while Turner was the province's chief minister and, as such, they have been included in the archive's collection of Premier's Papers. As will be seen, though, some of the papers pertain to Turner's tenure as Minister of Finance and Agriculture, a portfolio he held from 1887 to 1898.

GR-1197 may be regarded as a supplement to GR-0441 (British Columbia - Premier: 1883-1933), Series II, volumes 2-13, which also contains official correspondence of Premier Turner. Researchers may find that Volume 354 of GR-0441 (Index to Official Correspondence, 1895-1897) will assist them in locating other related records.

British Columbia. Premier

Public Health Officer correspondence

  • GR-0132
  • Series
  • 1898-1957

The series consists of correspondence of the Provincial Health Officer, subsequently the Deputy Minister of Health, and the Director of the Division of Public Health Engineering relating to water supplies and sewer systems for municipalities in British Columbia. The records cover the period 1898 to 1957. The series also includes correspondence with the Minister of Finance, H. Anscomb (1948-1950) in box 11, files 3-18.

British Columbia. Dept. of Health and Welfare

Treasury Department general correspondence files

  • GR-1773
  • Series
  • 1913-1938

This series consists of general correspondence files from the Treasury Department, and its successor the Department of Finance. The records cover the period from 1913-1938.

Correspondence from 1913-1924 is arranged by file number. Each letter has a unique number applied to it including the last two digits of the year received, and a number (e.g. 335/1916 is letter 335 received in the year 1916).

Correspondence from the 1920s to 1938 is arranged alphabetically by the name of the correspondent.

British Columbia. Treasury Dept.

Records of the Probate and Succession Duties Branch

  • GR-1775
  • Series
  • 1914-1932

Records of the Probate and Succession Duties Branch consisting of procedural memoranda, inter-departmental correspondence from the Departmental Solicitor (Office of the Attorney General) re estates, points of law, etc., newspaper clippings.

British Columbia. Dept. of Finance

Report to the Minister of Finance by the Civil and Hydraulic Engineer

  • GR-1023
  • Series
  • 1916

Series consists of a report to the Minister of Finance of the Province of British Columbia on the Physical and Financial conditions of irrigation projects in the Vernon and Kelowna Districts, created by A.R. Mackenzie, Civil and Hydraulic Engineer. 2 parts.

British Columbia. Water Rights Branch

Correspondence files related to administration of government agencies

  • GR-1774
  • Series
  • 1917-1936

This series consists of correspondence related to the administration of government agencies and government agents created by the Department of Finance and its predecessor, the Treasury Department from 1917-1936. Records relate to the following government agencies : 150 Mile House, Alberni, Anyox, Ashcroft, Atlin, Barkerville, Cariboo district, Clayoquot, Clinton, Cranbrook, Cumberland, Duncan, Fairview, Fernie, Fort Fraser, Fort George, Golden, Grand Forks, Greenwood, Hope, Kamloops, Kaslo, Lillooet, Merritt, Nakusp, Nanaimo, Nelson, New Denver, New Westminster, Penticton, Pouce Coupe, Prince Rupert, Quatsino, Queen Charlotte Islands, Quesnel, Revelstoke, Rossland, Salmon Arm, Smithers, Stewart, Telegraph Creek, Vancouver, Vernon, Williams Lake, Wilmer.

British Columbia. Treasury Dept.

Kelowna Supreme Court suitors' fund cash book

  • GR-2458
  • Series
  • 1925-1965

Series consists of a Kelowna Supreme Court suitors' fund cash book for Sep 1925 to Mar 1965 (pp. 10-121) and details of suitors' funds transferred to and made by the Treasury Department (later the Department of Finance) from 1928 to 1949 (pp. 394-399).

British Columbia. Supreme Court (Kelowna)

BC Government photographs

  • GR-3441
  • Series
  • 1963-1973

The series consists of ca. 4300 b&w and colour photographic prints and negatives taken between 1963 and 1973. Most were taken by the Government Photographic Branch but a few prints were taken by various commercial photographers and are stamped with their names. The photographs cover all areas of BC and show the construction of bridges, highways, public housing, universities, hospitals, public buildings such as mental hospitals and government buildings, ferries & terminals, regional colleges and public schools. There are also photographs of municipalities, resource and industrial photographs and transportation photographs. The photographs were collected by Hugh Ferguson of the Dept. of Finance for an unknown reason.

British Columbia. Dept. of Finance

Herbert Anscomb interview : [Robin, 1967]

SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Herbert Anscomb : Conservative Coalition cabinet minister, 1941-1952 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1967 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Comments on J.G. Diefenbaker. Explanation of conservative values and ideology. Anscomb's first election as an MLA ("independent" Conservative), 1933. The decline of the B.C. Conservative Party after 1952. Says "no difference between socialism and communism". Differences between Social Credit and Conservatives. Reasons for the formation of the Coalition, 1941. Anscomb's opposition to the social welfare system. Comment on the 1950 Conservative leadership convention. Enjoyed Public Works portfolio more than any other. Ancomb has "no hobbies but work". TRACK 2: The breakup of the Coalition government, January 1952. Premier Byron Johnson. Repeat of some parts of track 1. Anscomb came to Canada at the age of 19, in 1911.

Einar Gunderson interview

CALL NUMBER: T2639:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Financial policies of the Social Credit government, 1952-1960 PERIOD COVERED: 1900-1960 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-05-16 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Einar Gunderson discusses his background, education and training; his work as a chartered accountant in Edmonton; his experience working for the Alberta government as head of the income tax department in the 1930s. Gunderson came to British Columbia in 1945 and became established with one of the largest chartered accountancy firms in the province. Gunderson discusses his relationship with W.A.C. Bennett and the background to his involvement in British Columbia politics which led to his appointment as Minister of Finance in 1952. TRACK 2: Gunderson discusses the 1952 by-election in Similkameen after which he took his seat in the Legislature. Ideas regarding fiscal and economic policy which were adopted by the Social Credit government. Comments about the 1953 provincial election in which Gunderson was defeated and the subsequent by-election in Victoria which he also lost. Gunderson discusses his on-going relationship with Premier W.A.C. Bennett as financial and economic advisor; his role as vice-president of the P.G.E. and Director of B.C. Hydro. Gunderson also comments on his general influence on government policies, especially debt-reduction. CALL NUMBER: T2639:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Financial policies of the government of W.A.C. Bennett PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-05-19 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Einar Gunderson discusses his family background, attitude toward the Social Credit government in Alberta in the 1930s, relationship between Socreds in B.C. and Alberta, the Kelowna "bond-fire;", financial policies of W.A.C. Bennett, debt reduction, the issue of contingent liabilities, budget-making, economic development under Social Credit, the Toll Bridges and Highway Authority, B.C. Ferries, homeowners grant, parity bonds. TRACK 2: Reaction to the issue of parity bonds, the B.C. Free Enterprise Educational Fund, election fund raising, free enterprise vs. public ownership, the role of government in the economy, socialism, inter-relationships in the Socred cabinet, the Sommers Affair, W.A.C. Bennett and loyalty, personal relationship with W.A.C. Bennett, comments on Bennett's character and personality, travelling with W.A.C. Bennett, federal-provincial relations, equalization payments. CALL NUMBER: T2639:0003 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Aspects of government during the tenure of W.A.C. Bennett PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1977-05-19 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Einar Gunderson discusses the differences between equalization payments and W.A.C. Bennett's proposed negative income tax; relations with different federal administrations; federal-provincial conferences; the Briggs affair; the Wenner-Gren plan for the development of the interior of B.C.; Axel Wenner-Gren; the genesis of the two-river policy; the takeover of the B.C. Electric Co., the Stonehill affair, the genesis of the Bank of British Columbia. TRACK 2: Continuation of discussion of the proposal for a Bank of British Columbia, concluding remarks on Bennett and 20 years of power. (End of interview)

Charles Ferber interview

CALL NUMBER: T3332:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Financial administration of the Social Credit government, 1952-1972 (part 1) PERIOD COVERED: 1906-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1978-02-18 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: C.J. Ferber discusses his background, training, and work as a chartered accountant, and his entrance into the civil service as deputy comptroller-general during the Coalition years. The 1952 election, the beginning of the Social Credit era of government, and Ferber's promotion to the position of Comptroller-General. Impressions of W.A.C. Bennett, Einar Gunderson and J.V. Fisher. Duties and functions as Comptroller-General. Responsibilities and relationship within the government. Control of government expenditure. TRACK 2: Mr. Ferber discusses the issuing of special warrants for government expenditure. W.A.C. Bennett as a financial policy-maker. The comptroller-general as financial administrator. The role, function and operation of Treasury Board. Explanation of the budgetary process during the time of W.A.C. Bennett's administration. Attitudes toward deficit-financing.;

CALL NUMBER: T3332:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): Financial administration of the Social Credit government, 1952-1972 (part 2) PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1978-02-18 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: C.J. Ferber discusses the subject of deficit financing in government, debt reduction and Crown Corporations. The method which the government of W.A.C. Bennett employed to eliminate the public debt of B.C. The possible dangers for governments building up large amounts of contingent liabilities. The Social Credit policy of "Pay as you go". During Ferber's years as Comptroller-General, British Columbia's public accounts were the clearest in Canada. The difference between budgetary and non-budgetary items in public accounts. [TRACK 2: blank; end of interview.];

William Watson Anderson interview

CALL NUMBER: T1691:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): William Watson Anderson : Department of Finance, 1913-1952 (part 1) PERIOD COVERED: 1891-1952 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1978 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Born in Scotland in 1891. Family background. Father in the newspaper business in Scotland. Stories of Anderson's boyhood in Scotland. Schooling. Immigration to Canada in 1908. Stories of the trip. First impressions of Canada. Family purchased property in Victoria shortly after arrival. Anderson's first jobs as a clerk. Anecdote about prisoners from the provincial jail. Comments on Victoria and Sidney Railway. TRACK 2: Worked for B. Wilson and Co., ice dealers. Selling ice in the Rockland area. Worked for Victoria Truck and Dray. Becomes an accountant, c. 1910. Joined the Department of Finance, 1913. Comments on the patronage hirings in the civil service. Patronage worse under Liberals than Conservatives. Anderson as secretary to the Deputy Minister of Finance, W.J. Goeppel. Comments about J.V. Fisher, later Deputy Minister. CALL NUMBER: T1691:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): William Watson Anderson : Department of Finance, 1913-1952 (part 2) PERIOD COVERED: 1913-1956 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1978 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Continuation of the story about J.V. Fisher. Working conditions within the public service. Tentative steps towards a public service union. Anderson in the Canadian Armed Forces during World War I. Anderson's war work as an air mechanic and bookkeeper. Bookkeeping innovations introduced by Anderson. Anderson went to work in the Sales Tax section, 1949. Brief comments on the Bennett government. TRACK 2: Anderson a member of the Canadian Legion and Masonic Order. Anderson peripherally involved in the "Police Scandal", 1942, which involved Premier John Hart. Anderson testified before an investigating committee. Anderson's family. (End of interview)

Gerald S. Bryson interview

CALL NUMBER: T3724:0001 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): A career in the civil service (part 1) PERIOD COVERED: 1920-1957 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-08-19 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Gerald Bryson discusses his early years, education and military experience during the Second World War. Ambitions after the war. Attaining position as B.C. representative of the Dominion Bureau of Statistics. Duties with the DBS. In 1948 became Assistant Commissioner for the B.C. Social Security and Municipal Aid Tax. Problems associated with implementing the new tax. A unique introduction to the provincial civil service. In 1950 he became Commissioner of the Social Security and Municipal Aid Tax, succeeding Lloyd Detwiller. The disparity between salaries in the civil service and in the private sector at the time. Reasons for continuing in the public service. Problems dealt with as Commissioner of the sales tax. Herbert Anscomb as Minister of Finance. (pause) The effect of the break-up of the Coalition government. Byron Johnson as Minister of Finance. TRACK 2: Main goals as Commissioner of the sales tax. Comments on the unique aspects of British Columbia's implementation of the sales tax. Reaction to the election of British Columbia's first Social Credit government, 1952. Reaction in the civil service to the change in government. Einar Gunderson as Minister of Finance. J.V. Fisher as Deputy Minister of Finance. In 1954 was appointed Assistant Deputy Minister of Finance. Further comments on J.V. Fisher. As Assistant Deputy, Bryson helped establish a daily report for W.A.C. Bennett on government finances. Appointed as economic advisor to the government; his main task was the elimination of the public debt of the province. Comments on becoming Deputy Minister of Finance. Advice given by W.A.C. Bennett after becoming Deputy Minister of Finance. CALL NUMBER: T3724:0002 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): A career in the civil service (part 2) PERIOD COVERED: 1957-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-09-03 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Gerald Bryson discusses Herbert Anscomb as Minister of Finance. Byron Johnson as Minister of Finance. Einar Gunderson's impact on the Finance department. W.A.C. Bennett's practice of serving simultaneously as Premier and Minister of Finance. Relationship with W.A.C. Bennett as his deputy minister. Bryson's responsibilities were greater than would have been usual for a deputy minister. Travelling with the Premier. Comments on becoming deputy minister and advice given to him by W.A.C. Bennett. Impressions of Social Credit and the new government during its early years in power. First impressions of W.A.C. Bennett. Bryson's method of administration was one of delegation as opposed to his predecessor as deputy, J.V. Fisher, who tended to centralize authority in the Finance Department. The structure of the Finance department at the time he became deputy. TRACK 2: The role of the comptroller-general in the Finance Department. C.J. Ferber as comptroller-general. Method of preparing the daily financial statement for W.A.C. Bennett. Policy formulation and policy execution. Government administration not different than running a business. Relationship with other members of cabinet. Preparing daily financial statements for W.A.C. Bennett. Working within a system of balanced budgets. W.A.C. Bennett often could point out errors in monthly financial statements which were delivered to him by Bryson and Ferber. The advantages of daily and monthly financial statements. W.A.C. Bennett's financial acumen. W.A.C. Bennett enjoyed meeting financial people. Methods of keeping the Premier informed of developments in the financial world. The effect of Social Credit slogans. Further comments on working on a balanced budget system. CALL NUMBER: T3724:0003 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): A career in the civil service (part 3) PERIOD COVERED: 1952-[no date] RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-09-17 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Gerald Bryson discusses his relationship with Premier W.A.C. Bennett. Attending Premiers' conferences as representative of British Columbia. Relationship with other deputy ministers in the provincial government. Special status as deputy minister of Finance. Financial information available to other ministers. W.A.C. Bennett's plans to develop the northern part of the province. Bryson's involvement in discussions on policy related to the development of the province. Introduction of data processing to the Department of Finance. Problems related to borrowing money for crown corporations. Changes in the Department of Finance during the years he served as deputy minister. Comments on the daily duties of deputy minister of Finance. Decision-making in government. Compatibility with Premier W.A.C. Bennett. The lack of unnecessary paper-work in government in those years. Extra duties during legislative sessions. Sitting next to the Premier during his estimates. During legislative sessions Bryson was always on call. TRACK 2: The importance of debt reduction in W.A.C. Bennett's vision of British Columbia's development. Method of debt-reduction used by the government. The debate about direct versus indirect liabilities. Crown corporations and their financial responsibilities. Further comments on the distinction between direct and indirect liabilities. Factors involved in attaining a no-debt status for British Columbia. The unique qualities of crown corporations. Charges that the government was using two sets of books. Surpluses are necessary in order to achieve a balanced budget. Characterization of the government's financial policy as "conservative". The use of accumulated surpluses. Recollection of the "bond-fire" at Kelowna, 1959. Bryson removed himself from political issues or events. The use of surpluses and the issuing of special warrants for expenditure. CALL NUMBER: T3724:0004 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): A career in the civil service (part 4) RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-09-17 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Gerald Bryson discusses the activities related to the preparation of the provincial budget during the years of British Columbia's first Social Credit government. Little Treasury Board. Big Treasury Board. The operation of Treasury Board. Distinction between various roles Bryson served in. Friendly nature of Treasury Board negotiations. Duties as secretary of Treasury Board. Not all ministers submitted estimates which were intentionally higher than they knew would be approved. The operation of Treasury Board. Appointments to Treasury Board. Some ministers lobbied with Bryson during the Treasury Board process for extra expenditure. The flexibility of this system of Treasury Board. How decisions regarding additional expenditures were made. CALL NUMBER: T3724:0005 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): A career in the civil service (part 5) PERIOD COVERED: 1952-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-10-01 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Gerald Bryson discusses the provincial budget as a statement of government policy. Preparation of the budget speech. Comments on Treasury Board. Ministers' estimates were not given final approval in Treasury Board; when the provincial budget was introduced in the House, some ministers may have been as surprised as the general public. Some estimates were increased rather than decreased in Treasury Board. Methods of financial restraint used by the government of W.A.C. Bennett. Problems of economic growth and recession. The genesis of parity bonds. The unique qualities of British Columbia's parity bonds. Further comments on the introduction of parity bonds by W.A.C. Bennett. TRACK 2: Problems associated with issuing parity bonds. The provincial government experienced problems as a result of having millions of dollars of parity bonds out "on demand". Organized run on parity bonds occurred after the take-over of the B.C. Electric Company, 1961. Bryson spent many sleepless nights over the parity bond crisis. Consequences of the crisis: W.A.C. Bennett resolved to become independent of external financial markets. Financing through provincial pension funds. Investing government pension funds. Aspects of personal relationship with W.A.C. Bennett. Travelling with W.A.C. Bennett. Communicating with the Premier when he was out of Victoria. Comments on Ron Worley. The role of Lawrie Wallace in the later years of W.A.C. Bennett's tenure as Premier. The genesis of homeowners' grants in B.C. Reaction to homeowners' grants. CALL NUMBER: T3724:0006 SUPPLIED TITLE OF TAPE(S): A career in the civil service (part 6) PERIOD COVERED: [no date]-1972 RECORDED: [location unknown], 1980-10-01 SUMMARY: TRACK 1: Gerald Bryson discusses the B.C. government's proposal for a Bank of British Columbia which was vetoed by the Senate Banking Committee, 1964. Bryson's role in preparing the proposal. The reason for the failure of the government's plan for a Bank of British Columbia. The government's role in the eventual formation and success of the Bank of British Columbia. Attendance with the Premier at federal-provincial conferences. Effect of W.A.C. Bennett's style of participation at federal-provincial conferences. The Premier's advocacy of a five-region Canada. Reaction to the five-region concept. Background to the take-over of the B.C. Electric Company. Genesis of the two river policy. Bryson's role in preparation for negotiations for the Columbia River Treaty. Lending Quebec one hundred million dollars after B.C. received payment for the Columbia River Treaty. TRACK 2: Preparation for the special session of the B.C. Legislature in 1961 in which legislation was introduced taking over the B.C. Electric Company. Comments on the methods by which the B.C. Electric Company was taken over. Reaction to the take-over. Explanation of W.A.C. Bennett's claim that the take-over did not cost the taxpayer a cent. Adverse effects of the take-over. Comment on parity bonds. Differences between parity bonds and Canada Savings Bonds. Feelings of apprehension during election campaigns. Election campaigns and their effect on Bryson's duties. Comment on the changing nature of his function and duties during the years he served with W.A.C. Bennett. W.A.C. Bennett prior to the 1972 election. Reaction to the defeat of the Social Credit government, 1972. Recollection of last meeting with W.A.C. Bennett as Premier. Reflection on W.A.C. Bennett in his last years in office. (End of interview)